Through all the agitation at the end of class, I don't know if we came to a final conclusion... what is the point of Sir Gawain? Other than to not take panties from promiscuous ladies.
I kind of feel like its the idea that failure is a part of life, no matter how virtuous/good you are. Gawain is the best of the knights (who are supposed to be the more pious people). Even the best of the best fails at some point.
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I'm not sure I've reached a place in our discussion yet where I can answer the question you've asked ("What is the point?"). I have some more questions I need answered before I can tie this story up in a neat little bow.
On the previous post, I had stated that Gawain knew he had sinned when he accepted the girdle, and thus immediately ran off to confession. I've changed my mind. The sinning is not in the accepting of the girdle, but in breaking his word with Bertilak and not exchanging his winnings. The poems states "Gawain may know that he sins, but he does not immediately run off to confession upon receiving it." The poem states, "Then with a word of farewell she went away, for she could not force further satisfaction from him. Directly she withdrew, Sir Gawain dressed himself, rose and arrayed himself in rich garments...Then he went his way at once to the chapel, privily approached a priest and prayed him there to listen to his life's sins and enlighten him on how he might have salvation in the hereafter. Then, confessing his faults, he fairly shrove himself, begging mercy for both major and minor sins..." I think this is significant because it shows that Gawain was fully aware that what he was about to do (hide and keep the girdle) was sinful. Therefore he ran off to confess his sin before he even committed it. This is NOT repentance. God does not just clear your slate if you say, "God, I know you don't want me to do this, but I'm going to do it anyway and then just say I'm sorry and pray for forgiveness." That is not how Christianity works. You are supposed to abide by God's Word to the best of your ability. Sin will happen because humans are imperfect. But Gawain's actions are premeditated, and he never truly repents. This may be why he is never able to forgive himself, because God is unable to forgive him, because he is not truly sorry for his actions. Catch my drift? Agree/disagree?
Sorry I digressed from the post topic a little bit...
Oh, and I posted at 6:25 so nobody has any excuse for not responding to my post!
Kelsie,
I see where you're going with this, and I like the point you're going to make. Here's my question though, and this may be just because of my lack of understanding about Christianity.
Shouldn't God forgive him eventually? Should he have to go through a lifetime of repentance because he sinned once? Yes- I agree that he sinned very incorrectly by knowing he was going to "commit a crime" and doing it anyway. But shouldn't an all-forgiving God eventually forgive him, too?
Eventually? No. In the Christian faith, God forgives you when you repent and ask him for forgiveness. So in Gawain's case, he may never be "forgiven" just because he puts all the burden on himself.
I have a few theories I want to explore about why Gawain is unable to forgive himself.
First, I think it's helpful to examine Matthew 5:23-24:
"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother, then come and offer your gift."
Another relevant Biblical passage is James 5:16:
"Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."
Looking at these two passages, we see that God wants us to first confess our sins and apologize to those we have hurt or upset with our actions. Gawain fails to confess his sins to the host. He first runs off to confession and confesses to a priest, then later confesses to the Green Knight (but only after being caught). This is not how a Christian is supposed to go about things.
Second, Gawain's guilt is not that outlandish considering the following passage from 2 Corinthians 7:10-11:
"Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret...See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done."
And also from Psalm 38:18:
"I confess my iniquity; I am troubled by my sin."
Third, let us keep in mind that Gawain would have been Catholic, which makes me question whether we're seeing some scrupulosity ("Catholic guilt") going on here.
My fourth and final theory is a complete departure from the previous ones. (It's also not one that I personally believe to be true, but just something I thought I'd throw out there.) All of my other theories just assume that Gawain was a Christian. But what if he wasn't? What if he hadn't truly accepted Jesus as his Savior? In the Christian faith, our sins are forgiven through our belief in Jesus Christ who took upon Himself all the sins of the world when He was crucified. Certain Biblical passages point to this idea that we must accept Christ in order to receive forgiveness. Acts 26:18, where Paul recounts a conversation with Jesus, illustrates this idea:
"...to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me."
If Gawain wasn't truly a Christian, then according to the Christian faith it is possible that God did not forgive his sins, and thus Gawain never felt at peace with himself.
Sorry for quoting the Bible so much, but I just figured it probably would help clear up some questions about Christianity and repentance/forgiveness in the Christian religion. Also, depending on which passages we examine and how we interpret them, we can find any number of possible explanations for Gawain's perpetual guilt.
Do you agree with any of my theories? Disagree with them? Anyone have any other ideas?
Kelsie,
Thanks for the Bible passages. They were really interesting and a good way to put things into perspective.
"Gawain fails to confess his sins to the host. "
I agree, but he only had one chance to do so. After this, he knows the lord knows. Acording to Christian beleif, should there be no way for him to truly repent?
I found your last theory really interesting. I think its possible that he wasn't a true Christian, but its not a theory I would immediately run to. While it semes possible, I feel like there isn't enough evidence to support that?
And can you explain what you mean by "Catholic guilt"?
The point could be illustrating the impossibility of following a too highly idealistic moral code. The real vs the ideal as Laz said in class.
Two big examples come to mind.
First is the conflict between courtesy and chastity. There is absolutely no way Gawain could uphold both at the same time. He had to give up one to show the other.
Second is the conflict between his primal instinct (self preservation) and duty to uphold a contract. His flinch shows that while he understands that he cannot break the contract, he can't help but flinch away from certain death. The ideal is an inherent contradiction of human nature. How can we break away from our own programming to follow an arbitrary set of rules? We can't.
Yeah, just an idea :)
Kelsie, though I don't necessarily believe your last theory, it is a very interesting perspective. I read an article that suggested that Gawain was a Christian, but not a pious one. He only called on his religion when it was needed. The only time that we see Gawain pray is when he is in the forest and he is looking for a place to stay and to go to mass. Then when he comes across Bertilak's castle, he doesn't pay attention to the service, rather he pays attention to Lady Bertilak. There were many other opportunities for him throughout this story to display his faith but he does not (most pious Christians would have probably prayed before facing the Green Knight). Like I said, I don't think this theory is great, but I just had stuff to support it.
Albert...nice job... I couldn't have said it better myself.
For me, this story's point lies in its themes of moral codes and the failure of one's faith. This story seems to be about Gawain's strong sense of and deep belief in his moral code. However, while on this quest for the Green Knight, Gawain is tested and he becomes disillusioned. After his encounter with the members of Bertilak's castle, Gawain realizes that his code of chivalry is completly idealistic and cannot be upheld in the real world because of human limitations. Thus Gawain loses faith in himself and everything for which he has stood (moral code). As Laz said in class (at least what I have written in my notes), this story is an affirmation of what is human in all of us. We, as human beings, cannot rise above the limitations that nature sets for us and the ideals for which we strive don't always work out because real life takes over.
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